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 Unknown French socket bayonet ? 
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Bericht Unknown French socket bayonet ?
- I got today an interesting socket bayonet [with no scabbard] in very good condition. Definitely it's a French bayonet! The bayonet has a socket which looks like the socket of the French M-1822 bayonet with a separate bridge [of squared look] on the locking ring. The socket has the slot for an under barrel stud and attached to the weapon, the bayonet will be on the right side. Since the triangular blade is only 333mm long, I'm sure this socket bayonet was only used by cadets or guard duty army guys. The blade has a beak [prow] tip like the one used by the US M-1816 socket bayonet [which I have in my collection]. Definitely the blade was not broken or shortened, it was made from the very beginning 333mm long. The blade also has rear shoulders of tapered design. ---> Dimensions: => Socket length = 67mm; => Socket [inside] diameter: 23mm (at back by the bridge) and 21.5mm (by the shank); => Blade length = only 333mm; => Blade width [at the end of the flute / fuller] = 19.5mm; => Overall length = 400mm. Since I don't have ready the pictures of my bayonet, I made today a drawing which is going to be posted here. ---> DRAWING [from top to bottom]: => The socket bayonet which has a triangular blade with a prow tip. => The socket and the flat side of the blade with the flute. Note the blade rear shoulders of tapered design. There is a distance of exactly 50mm measured between the socket end and the flute / fuller. The only one mark of the bayonet is stamped by the end of the flute, the 2 letters "G.C". => The 3 images showing the triangular blade prow tip. The blade has a thick rim / side. ---> QUESTIONS: What model of French bayonet do I have and which weapon used it??? What is the meaning of the only mark showing the 2 letters "G.C"??? I'm very interested in any information you can give me about this bayonet. Thanks in advance, Orita 09/02/08 P.S. I'm sure the volume "Les Baionnettes Militaires Francaises" has my bayonet listed there.

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03 sep 2008, 04:22
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03 sep 2008, 07:23
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- @ virjinz: Thanks for posting my drawing. I hope somebody can identify the bayonet I have [model, the meaning of the mark "G.C", etc]. ---> NOTE: I have to mention again that the bayonet blade [333mm long] was not broken and sharpened again. I did examine with great care the tip of the blade [prow / beak blade point] and the bayonet had been manufactured like that from the very beginning. The large fuller / flute [on the blade side with the mark "G.C"] ends very gently at the blade tip, showing that the blade was not broken or shortened. Orita 09/04/08

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04 sep 2008, 05:50
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I looked through Paul KieslingĀ“s Bayonets of the World (Vol 1-4). It does not show any bayonet which has exactly the dimensions as given by you.


04 sep 2008, 08:20
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Hi Orita.
I haven't kept my reply on your private message about my opinion on this bayonet. Would you be able to post it here?
The G.C. markings could refer to "Garde du Corps" which seems to lead us to the Mle. 1816 or Mle. 1822 if I'm right here (writing out of memory, no books here).


04 sep 2008, 10:11
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- @ Kilian: I only have "Volume One" of "Bayonets of the World" by Paul Kiesling. It covers various bayonet models but only from item "1" to "278" and I couldn't find anything there either. ---> @ virjinz: Yes, I have saved your message which says: => "The book mentions the 'Garde du Corps' 1st model (1814) and 2nd model (1816) but there are a few others that are possible as well ... " I assume that you were speaking about the bayonets from the volume named "Les Baionnettes Militaires Francaises". I'm 99% sure the answer can be found in that book. Thank you both (Kilian & virjinz) for helping me, Orita 09/04/08

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04 sep 2008, 18:00
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- I asked questions about this unusual socket bayonet on a French forum. My drawing was posted there too. From a high authority in French bayonets I got the definitive answer: this socket bayonet was NOT made in France. A member of that French bayonet forum wrote that the mark "G.C" could be of Belgian origin. Anyone of you guys who can say something about this??? Orita 09/09/08

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10 sep 2008, 05:07
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- Finally I have pictures ready showing my "unknown" socket bayonet which is NOT French and definitely is a cadet model. My pictures will be posted here. ---> Note the short triangular blade [it was not cut or shortened] with a prow type tip. The blade has a face fuller [flute] which is 283mm long. The blade also has thick edges and no rear corners like the blade of the French M-1822 socket bayonet. I can say that this type of blade has a streamlined shape. I did stab the white cardboard used for background to show the blade profile [see it in front of the socket in one of my photos]. Like the French M-1822 socket bayonet, this bayonet also is fixed on a lug located under the barrel at the end and the bayonet is on the right side of the rifle when is mounted. The locking ring has a separate bridge [not under the tension screw], bridge which is also reinforced. Note the nice clear mark "G.C" stamped on the ricasso by the face fuller end. There is also a very small square mark stamped on the locking ring by the head of the tension screw, mark which shows a Belgian manufacture. ---> I measured with great care the bayonet dimensions which are: => Overall length = 400mm; => Distance between the tip of the blade and the front socket = 332mm; => Socket length = 67.3mm; => Diameter of the interior socket front = 21.5mm; => Distance between mortise slot and socket front = 26.5mm; => Width of the mortise slot end [by the socket end] = 6mm. ---> It is a high probability that this socket bayonet is a model for a cadet rifle made in Belgium for export to Switzerland. If you have any info, please post it here. Bedankt, Orita 10/19/08

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19 okt 2008, 05:16
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19 okt 2008, 10:21
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- The French M-1822 socket bayonet [and the previous models] had blade shoulders [rear corners] by the shank. The French M-1847 socket bayonet was the first model to have a "new fashion" with the rear blade in a streamlined shape [like the rear corners were ground off]. Since my "unknown" socket bayonet with short blade has the new shape [with no blade shoulders by the shank] like the French M-1847 socket bayonet, I assume it was manufactured NOT earlier than 1840s. To identify this socket bayonet it's like "detective work", each detail is very important. I was thinking to ask questions about my bayonet to some museum(s) from Liege and at the Royal Military Museum from Brussels. Anyone of you guys who can post here an e-mail address to contact somebody there??? Orita 10/19/08

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19 okt 2008, 14:33
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Hi Orita,
you can contact the Belgian Army Museum on the following address : infocom@klm-mra.be
the liege weapons museum is currently being re-located and will normally open in march 2009. info@museedarmes.be should work.
Kristof


04 nov 2008, 15:12
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