Italian 1891/97TS bayonet
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Auteur:  Orita [ 21 aug 2008, 04:38 ]
Berichttitel:  Italian 1891/97TS bayonet

This type of Italian bayonet was introduced starting with the year 1897 and it was named originally "Sciabola-Baionetta Modello 91 da Moschetto per Truppe Speciali". It is for the Italian 6,5mm Mannlicher-Carcano carbine. The bayonet is also known as the "Mod.1891TS" where "TS" stands for "Truppe Speciali" [specialist toops]. --->

Dimensions: Overall length = 414mm; Blade length = 292mm; Blade width [at crossguard] = 25,5mm; Blade thickness [at crossguard] = 4,8mm; Muzzle ring [interior] diameter = 13,3mm. --->

A few years ago I got the Italian 1891/97TS bayonet only for a few dollars; it had plenty of rust, no scabbard, no grips and the locking piece was missing. My pictures from below show how the bayonet looks today. --->


Photo 1: TOP => The image shows 2 bayonet pommels from top: at left it is the 1891/97TS bayonet and at right it is the usual 1891 bayonet. Note the locking system difference. BOTTOM => At top/left it is the locking piece which I made myself, the press-stud button with its spring and the pin which secures the system in place. Below it's the usual locking mechanism for the 1891 bayonet [L-shaped piece, spring and round nut]. --->


Photo 2: LEFT => The left side of the crossguard is stamped with "Q7927" and the letter "P" is stamped below the muzzle ring [also on the crossguard]. Note the 2 rivets which secure the crossguard in position from below. I made new grips made of aluminum which must have scallops [2 scallops for each grip] located on the side which contacts the blade tang at the crossguard, in order to fit into the rivets which secure the crossguard in place. The scallops can be made using the tip of the drill at low speed. To secure the grips to the blade tang I used 2 screws with countersunk flat heads [diameter = 8mm] for the "Allen wrench" [an L-shaped wrench with a hexagonal head at both ends]. On the other side the grip has inserted 2 steel round nuts with the diameter of 9,5mm. Note the diagonal pommel which has a transversal slot and a hole for the pin. At right from the pommel there is the locking piece I had to make myself [from a solid piece of metal], it has a tooth, a flat top surface and a rounded bottom with a hole with thread for the end of the press-stud button. Note also the the metal pin I made from an ordinary nail [diameter = 2,4mm and 18mm long] which has to be fixed into the hole across the pommel, to secure in place the press-stud button allowing it to move about 4mm back and forth in order to lock and unlock the system. At the bottom of the pommel there is the original press-stud button and its spring, exactly in the position in which goes into the 2-step hole drilled inside of the pommel. The pommel is brazed to the blade tang [note the yellow color above on the blade tang]. RIGHT => At left there is an 1891 bayonet [with aluminum grips I made] and at right there is this 1891/97TS bayonet. Right in the middle there is an 1891 bayonet [WW2 production] in mint condition [I sold this bayonet!]. --->


Photo 3: TOP => Since I don't have the 6,5mm Mannlicher-Carcano 1891/97TS carbine, in order to be able to make the missing locking piece, I had to buy the original "upper band" piece with the bayonet lug. I used an original barrel of the 6,5mm Italian Mannlicher-Carcano 1941 rifle with the "upper band" piece of the 1891/97TS carbine to attach the 1891/97TS bayonet and to make sure the locking piece I had made works very well. The "upper band" piece has a tranversal long screw which secures in place the bayonet lug. The 1891/97TS bayonet fits perfectly! The locking piece I made locks perfectly into the bayonet lug. Note the press-stud button at the back of the pommel and the pin head [located under the tranversal slot], pin which secures in place the odd locking mechanism used by the 1891/97TS bayonet. Also note the 2 round nuts inserted into the right aluminum grip. BOTTOM => The left side. Note the flat screw heads [for the Allen wrench] on the grip level. NOTE: I did not polish to perfection the surface of the new made aluminm grips, in order to let them to look somehow like the wooden grips. Orita 08/20/08

Auteur:  Orita [ 21 aug 2008, 05:16 ]

- When the locking system of the 1891/97TS bayonet is put together, there is an important condition: with the locking piece in position the press-stud button [and its spring] must be screwed tight to the locking piece and the cut-out located on the press-stud button [see it on my Photo 1 / BOTTOM, the spring covers a little the cut-out] must be at the lower position in order to allow the metal pin to be fixed in position to secure the system. To achieve this condition, the thread made at the bottom of the locking piece has to be made in a certain way or the cut-out from the press-stud button won't fit correctly in place and the metal pin cannot be inserted [this problem can be solved in two ways]. ---> The original scabbard for the 1891 and 1891/97TS bayonets has 4 variations but like I mentioned, I don't have the scabbard. ---> To attach the 1891/97TS bayonet to the Italian 6,5mm Mannlicher-Carcano carbine, first the muzzle ring must be fit into the barrel end with the bayonet on the right side of the weapon, then the bayonet must be rotated to get under the barrel, it will lock from the side. ---> To release the 1891/97TS bayonet from the locked position, the press-stud button from the end of the pommel must be pushed against to unlock the bayonet which has to be rotated counter clockwise to the right side of the weapon and after that moved forward to set free the muzzle ring from the barrel end. Orita 08/21/08

Auteur:  Orita [ 21 aug 2008, 15:04 ]

- @ virjinz: Many thanks for posting all my pictures, I do appreciate your help. I also have more photos showing in detail the "upper band" piece and its bayonet lug. Let me know if you want these pictures to be posted here, so I can e-mail them to you. ---> If somebody wants to see old Italian weapons and the 1891/97TS bayonet, please enter here at http://www.cruffler.com/historic-december01.html Orita 08/21/08 P.S. The Italian 1891 and 1891/97TS bayonets have wooden grips secured in place to the blade tang with 2 rivets set into washers [like most of the Austrian made M-1893 Mannlicher knife bayonets used by Romanians and Turks].

Auteur:  Orita [ 24 aug 2008, 05:05 ]

- According with the 4th edition of the volume "Standard Catalog of Military Firearms" [The Collector's Price and Reference Guide, Bayonets included] by Phillip Peterson, the Italian 1891/97TS bayonet has a value between 125.00 - 275.00 [or even higher] US dollars in contrast with the more common Italian 1891 or 1941 bayonet that has a value between 50.00 - 125.00 US dollars. The bayonets are priced according with their condition. Orita 08/23/08

Auteur:  virjinz [ 24 aug 2008, 08:11 ]

sometimes people sell them as normal 1891 bayonets and I hope to find a seller that makes that mistake and charges the lower price

Auteur:  Orita [ 24 aug 2008, 15:01 ]

- @ virjinz: It's very true, sometimes the seller has no idea what he/she sells, especially when that person isn't a bayonet collector. A few years ago I got from a flea market in Georgia (USA) an original German 71/84 knife bayonet with no scabbard and abused blade but for only $ 5.00, it was a super-deal. => NOTE: The 6,5mm Mannlicher-Carcano carbine and its 1891/97TS bayonet were introduced in 1897. I think this weapon was manufactured until the end of WW1 but the 1891/97TS bayonet wasn't made during all that period of time since after some years the 1891 bayonet with the normal locking system was used for the carbine too. Anyone who knows exctly how many years the 1891/97TS bayonet was manufactured [starting with the year 1897]??? Orita 08/24/08

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